Which is why Leap suggesting that our (tangled, expensive, needlessly complex, inefficient system that delivers the best health care in the world) is *unjust* with his words “These things are not untrue.” is unfortunate.
I want to take a minute to thank everyone for the wonderful comments and discussion. And I want to welcome new followers! I apologize for not responding directly lately, but my wife has been rather ill and I'm kind of distracted. I hope that I can interact with everyone more often as time goes by. By the way I'm posting a Christmas piece today. For about 20 years I wrote for our regional newspaper and I almost always wrote a Christmas column. I'm going back in time; but then, Christmas is timeless so I think it's OK.
You sound like a worried ceo or board member. Out of all the options you focus on that one? The earnings of a ceo or board member should be proportionate to their efficacy and their company’ efficacy. In the case of the health funds, in fact any health fund, ceo earnings need to be limited. Health funds can only earn from the number of people who remain members or acquire new members and those members remain non claimants. (I get they do have their funds invested but put that to the side for the time being). The health fund ought to be there for its members in a fair and equitable manner. This and turning a profit seem to be incompatible.
This basically applies to all insurance companies.
I can't explain why I am so disturbed by the response to the healthcare CEO's murder but it's really bothering me for several reasons. This is a great piece on one, ok, maybe more than one, reason. It’s very powerful and I would hope maybe persuasive to the depressing number of people who seem to have lost their moral bearings.
Perhaps one of the reasons you are so disturbed is that it is yet another example - like the support for Hamas after Oct 7th - of woke oppressor- oppressed ideology in action.
Our health care system is super dumb…but states like Massachusetts and Vermont could have single payer very easily and they don’t. So in the words of Snoop Dog, don’t hate the player…hate the game!
It is inarguably true that our American criminal justice system has and will in the future execute for severe crimes some who in fact did not commit those crimes. It is chiefly for this reason that I oppose the death penalty in that this particular mistake can never be undone. All systems including the criminal justice system which are created by humans are by definition flawed.
Having said that, I notice in my own mind a severe reaction to, for example, mass school shooters and sometimes hear myself thinking "that person deserves a prompt execution" even though i already believe that execution is never an answer much less the answer. This is the human tendency to vengeance pure and simple. It is pre-wired into our human brains and minds in my view. I often think about these competing impulses which I notice even in myself and which I suspect are present in most if not all humans.
My belief is that the human psych is prewired to feel and act on these base instincts, vengeance among them. It is a sign of an advanced society that we enact and build systems to hold those instincts at bay. If I am right the American system is moving away from this notion and our most base and violent instincts are now not only acceptable but spoken aloud my some of the most educated among us i.e. doctors.
The interesting question to me is how to best understand this deterioration in our American society and what we stand for? The decline in organized religion? The normalization of greed especially corporate greed? The lack of belief in government in many of its forms including law enforcement and the judicial system itself?
I think all those and probably more. This is just one more symptom of an ill civilization as noted by the other poster.
IMO in this excellent piece Leap didn’t put into words what is off about the “public response”. He put into words why it is bad.
But it is “off” because many many progressives, including the elites that control the media, are fundamentally socialist and leftist in their ideology, and sympathetic to woke oppressor-oppressed ideology.
The support for the killer over the victim here is entirely consistent with the support for Hamas post Oct 7th - the BiPoC Palestinians are being oppressed by the evil rich white male capitalist Christian/Jewish patriarchy, and so are justified overthrowing their oppressors by ANY. MEANS. NECESSARY.
Given how many on the left agree with this, combined with how few on the left have denounced this oppressor-oppressed ideology and statements (Harvard student groups: “we hold Israel solely responsible for all unfolding violence in the region”), why is it the least bit surprising when something similar happens here?
As Alex Berenson wrote recently (at link that follows) “Progressives hoped (yes, hoped) Thompson’s assassin would turn out to be a poor blue-collar worker with a kid who died after being denied chemotherapy.”
Hi! I'm leftist and what the world needs now -- what I need now more than ever -- is to not be lumped into categories and to have deep conversations with humans rather than defensive talking points.
What exactly above that I said about oppressor-oppressed ideology, and the behavior of a) leftist believers in that ideology, and b) “progressive” / “liberal” leaders who have refused to denounce that ideology, do you disagree with?
Yes, I totally agree selective approval of barbaric acts against people or institutions is a quick descent into anarchy and barbarism. Could the media have any responsibility due to their use of these terms against an opposite view of their narrative?
I get tired of journalists whining about their fear of losing their reporting rights when Trump becomes president. I often see journalists writing what they are told to write by their media. I saw journalists angrily berating those who chose not to get vaccinated. I see journalists reporting on medical board actions against physicians with great glee, simply restatements of med board press releases. Journalists need to start investigating claims instead of simply repeating press releases. And I hold journalists responsible for fomenting much of the anger we see. Journalists of all people should honor the right to express an opinion without censorship.
After the many physicians comments condoning murder, I too had trouble sleeping. I want to ask if they also agree with the death penalty? Knowing some of them by other comments, I would say that they don’t. What a convoluted thought process to arrive at the rationalization they espouse
I am consistently amazed how inconsistent we are, as a society, on two hot-button topics - abortion and the death penalty (for convicted criminals). The only politician I recall who was, IMHO, consistent was former Pennsylvania governor Casey. In both instances, to be consistent, one should either be pro-choice, pro-death penalty, or against each. How many of us, physicians or not, are? We live in a society where the use of guns to solve grievances is all too common, and have, as a consequence, become numbed to violent death.
The irony of this applause coming from US doctors, who are paid between twice and four times as doctors in Europe, and act as a cartel to artificially limit the training of new doctors. They are arguably even more responsible than insurance companies to the inaccessibility of healthcare in the US
You have said it well. Murder is NEVER a justifiable response or solution to dealing with another human whom you may vehemently disagree with or despise for whatever reason(s). We are, after all, a nation of laws...laws that stem from Judeo/Christian ethics and are designed to protect all of us (from ourselves and from others), and to keep us civilized and orderly.
There are layers of perception for this event. A murder in broad daylight of an ordinary person not uncommon, but one of an elite figure is. So the elite person carries symbolic weight the rest of us don’t. People are responding to the destruction of the symbol.
I would say those celebrating this event feel there is no other recourse against the symbol.
Policy makers need to get cracking and quickly because I am surprised by the broad public support for this criminal act.
Well, I'm sorry his manifesto did not have educational things we all should know and discuss, like the victim likely had many corpses in his closet from the choices and policies he did or supported, for a few dollars in many cases, and because he and those other killers did it for and within the corporate legal immunity shied, they will not be or ever be held personally responsible.
Same for the owners - of course. A person might consider removing those that raised or influenced and profited by so many serial killers in so many families, so maybe all the older adults in their families removed also, would be Just?
And when such a murder is beyond the law and endlessly killing, what isn't Just about a public execution?
How many of these white-collar killers in how many fields around the West and World maybe should die, until Corporate Law is changed?
Everyone with any deaths because of cost-or-profits, should be the answer.
I love and agree with ALL the other words and ideas in this piece.
And even the above statement (referring to the supposed “harms” of health insurance company practices) might technically be true.
But it is massively misleading.
I fully understand that you didn’t want to take on that issue in this piece. Nor would I suggest that you should have.
But you could have ignored it altogether.
Instead, you imply that the progressive left, plus some of the populist right and some anarchists as well, are correct in the claim that the healthcare system is unjust.
You strongly imply that their “anger” and ideology are correct on this topic, even though it is barbaric to take it to the extreme of cheering or even condoning murder.
Civilization is a fragile invention.
Agreed.
Which is why Leap suggesting that our (tangled, expensive, needlessly complex, inefficient system that delivers the best health care in the world) is *unjust* with his words “These things are not untrue.” is unfortunate.
I want to take a minute to thank everyone for the wonderful comments and discussion. And I want to welcome new followers! I apologize for not responding directly lately, but my wife has been rather ill and I'm kind of distracted. I hope that I can interact with everyone more often as time goes by. By the way I'm posting a Christmas piece today. For about 20 years I wrote for our regional newspaper and I almost always wrote a Christmas column. I'm going back in time; but then, Christmas is timeless so I think it's OK.
Of course there are other ways to deal with the problem of health fund injustices without resorting to murder. To name a few:
1. Remove health fund companies from the stock exchange.
2. Relentless public exposure and humiliation - journos do your job (with facts)
3. Relentless complaints to your political representative - a sure vote winner
4. Boycott
5. Limit CEO and board member salaries
6. Class action
7. No commissions for denying treatment.
Life is sacrosanct.
Do no harm - applies to health funds too.
You sound like a worried ceo or board member. Out of all the options you focus on that one? The earnings of a ceo or board member should be proportionate to their efficacy and their company’ efficacy. In the case of the health funds, in fact any health fund, ceo earnings need to be limited. Health funds can only earn from the number of people who remain members or acquire new members and those members remain non claimants. (I get they do have their funds invested but put that to the side for the time being). The health fund ought to be there for its members in a fair and equitable manner. This and turning a profit seem to be incompatible.
This basically applies to all insurance companies.
Are you saying all CEO salaries should be limited?
I can't explain why I am so disturbed by the response to the healthcare CEO's murder but it's really bothering me for several reasons. This is a great piece on one, ok, maybe more than one, reason. It’s very powerful and I would hope maybe persuasive to the depressing number of people who seem to have lost their moral bearings.
Perhaps one of the reasons you are so disturbed is that it is yet another example - like the support for Hamas after Oct 7th - of woke oppressor- oppressed ideology in action.
See below for my longer explication of this.
Our health care system is super dumb…but states like Massachusetts and Vermont could have single payer very easily and they don’t. So in the words of Snoop Dog, don’t hate the player…hate the game!
It is inarguably true that our American criminal justice system has and will in the future execute for severe crimes some who in fact did not commit those crimes. It is chiefly for this reason that I oppose the death penalty in that this particular mistake can never be undone. All systems including the criminal justice system which are created by humans are by definition flawed.
Having said that, I notice in my own mind a severe reaction to, for example, mass school shooters and sometimes hear myself thinking "that person deserves a prompt execution" even though i already believe that execution is never an answer much less the answer. This is the human tendency to vengeance pure and simple. It is pre-wired into our human brains and minds in my view. I often think about these competing impulses which I notice even in myself and which I suspect are present in most if not all humans.
My belief is that the human psych is prewired to feel and act on these base instincts, vengeance among them. It is a sign of an advanced society that we enact and build systems to hold those instincts at bay. If I am right the American system is moving away from this notion and our most base and violent instincts are now not only acceptable but spoken aloud my some of the most educated among us i.e. doctors.
The interesting question to me is how to best understand this deterioration in our American society and what we stand for? The decline in organized religion? The normalization of greed especially corporate greed? The lack of belief in government in many of its forms including law enforcement and the judicial system itself?
I think all those and probably more. This is just one more symptom of an ill civilization as noted by the other poster.
Something has seemed so very off about the public response. Thank you for putting it into words.
IMO in this excellent piece Leap didn’t put into words what is off about the “public response”. He put into words why it is bad.
But it is “off” because many many progressives, including the elites that control the media, are fundamentally socialist and leftist in their ideology, and sympathetic to woke oppressor-oppressed ideology.
The support for the killer over the victim here is entirely consistent with the support for Hamas post Oct 7th - the BiPoC Palestinians are being oppressed by the evil rich white male capitalist Christian/Jewish patriarchy, and so are justified overthrowing their oppressors by ANY. MEANS. NECESSARY.
Given how many on the left agree with this, combined with how few on the left have denounced this oppressor-oppressed ideology and statements (Harvard student groups: “we hold Israel solely responsible for all unfolding violence in the region”), why is it the least bit surprising when something similar happens here?
As Alex Berenson wrote recently (at link that follows) “Progressives hoped (yes, hoped) Thompson’s assassin would turn out to be a poor blue-collar worker with a kid who died after being denied chemotherapy.”
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/an-assassin-for-our-time-part-one
They hoped this because then the story perfectly fits the oppressor-oppressed narrative.
And that explains why so many leftists were cheering on the killer’s actions.
Hi! I'm leftist and what the world needs now -- what I need now more than ever -- is to not be lumped into categories and to have deep conversations with humans rather than defensive talking points.
I'm here. Let's talk.
Great. Let’s talk.
What exactly above that I said about oppressor-oppressed ideology, and the behavior of a) leftist believers in that ideology, and b) “progressive” / “liberal” leaders who have refused to denounce that ideology, do you disagree with?
Yes, I totally agree selective approval of barbaric acts against people or institutions is a quick descent into anarchy and barbarism. Could the media have any responsibility due to their use of these terms against an opposite view of their narrative?
I get tired of journalists whining about their fear of losing their reporting rights when Trump becomes president. I often see journalists writing what they are told to write by their media. I saw journalists angrily berating those who chose not to get vaccinated. I see journalists reporting on medical board actions against physicians with great glee, simply restatements of med board press releases. Journalists need to start investigating claims instead of simply repeating press releases. And I hold journalists responsible for fomenting much of the anger we see. Journalists of all people should honor the right to express an opinion without censorship.
Yes, you are right on point!
After the many physicians comments condoning murder, I too had trouble sleeping. I want to ask if they also agree with the death penalty? Knowing some of them by other comments, I would say that they don’t. What a convoluted thought process to arrive at the rationalization they espouse
I am consistently amazed how inconsistent we are, as a society, on two hot-button topics - abortion and the death penalty (for convicted criminals). The only politician I recall who was, IMHO, consistent was former Pennsylvania governor Casey. In both instances, to be consistent, one should either be pro-choice, pro-death penalty, or against each. How many of us, physicians or not, are? We live in a society where the use of guns to solve grievances is all too common, and have, as a consequence, become numbed to violent death.
I am anti abortion and anti death penalty. At least I am consistent.
Darn few who are! Kudos to you.
I was absolutely appalled at physicians applauding murder. I am on one of the same Facebook pages as Ed, I didn’t comment.
The irony of this applause coming from US doctors, who are paid between twice and four times as doctors in Europe, and act as a cartel to artificially limit the training of new doctors. They are arguably even more responsible than insurance companies to the inaccessibility of healthcare in the US
You wrote the essay I wanted to write. Thank you.
You have said it well. Murder is NEVER a justifiable response or solution to dealing with another human whom you may vehemently disagree with or despise for whatever reason(s). We are, after all, a nation of laws...laws that stem from Judeo/Christian ethics and are designed to protect all of us (from ourselves and from others), and to keep us civilized and orderly.
Jews had capital punishment for idol worship….money is a false idol.
"Do we want this to be the norm?"
Quite a few of us THINK we do. They will be quite surprised.
There are layers of perception for this event. A murder in broad daylight of an ordinary person not uncommon, but one of an elite figure is. So the elite person carries symbolic weight the rest of us don’t. People are responding to the destruction of the symbol.
I would say those celebrating this event feel there is no other recourse against the symbol.
Policy makers need to get cracking and quickly because I am surprised by the broad public support for this criminal act.
Well, I'm sorry his manifesto did not have educational things we all should know and discuss, like the victim likely had many corpses in his closet from the choices and policies he did or supported, for a few dollars in many cases, and because he and those other killers did it for and within the corporate legal immunity shied, they will not be or ever be held personally responsible.
Same for the owners - of course. A person might consider removing those that raised or influenced and profited by so many serial killers in so many families, so maybe all the older adults in their families removed also, would be Just?
And when such a murder is beyond the law and endlessly killing, what isn't Just about a public execution?
How many of these white-collar killers in how many fields around the West and World maybe should die, until Corporate Law is changed?
Everyone with any deaths because of cost-or-profits, should be the answer.
God Bless., Steve
And you are certain that no action you have taken ever contributed somewhere in the chain of consequences to someone else's death, pain or suffering?
At least some of these depraved folks who do indeed want this to be the norm openly reveal themselves as such…
But I do confess the “God Bless” used with no apparent sense of irony chills me more.
“These things are not untrue.”
I love and agree with ALL the other words and ideas in this piece.
And even the above statement (referring to the supposed “harms” of health insurance company practices) might technically be true.
But it is massively misleading.
I fully understand that you didn’t want to take on that issue in this piece. Nor would I suggest that you should have.
But you could have ignored it altogether.
Instead, you imply that the progressive left, plus some of the populist right and some anarchists as well, are correct in the claim that the healthcare system is unjust.
You strongly imply that their “anger” and ideology are correct on this topic, even though it is barbaric to take it to the extreme of cheering or even condoning murder.
But this implication is false, and it is wrong.